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difference between pre cat and post cat o2 sensors

Inspect the exhaust manifold and fuel injectors for leaks as well as the condition of the ignition components these may affect sensor operation. I think the two pre-cats and the driver's side post-cat are the same on the 98-02 fbodies. Tally how many spark plug wires are present. The technical storage or access is required to create user profiles to send advertising, or to track the user on a website or across several websites for similar marketing purposes. Are Bank 1 and Bank 2 O2 sensors the same? 0 Being lean, 0.5 being ideal and 1.0V being rich. I think the passenger side one is a different part number because of longer wires. OP is outside USA, so does not have wideband pre-cat O2 sensors. 2nd wire: White heater (-) Without a subpoena, voluntary compliance on the part of your Internet Service Provider, or additional records from a third party, information stored or retrieved for this purpose alone cannot usually be used to identify you. Pre Cat and Post Cat O2 Sensors For Suzuki Swift Sport RS416 1.6L M13A M16A . However I'll defer to your knowledge with working at Bosch. Four-cylinder engines have two sensors, while V6 and V8 engines have four sensors. To protect against the sensor becoming welded into its threading, Delphi sensors come with anti-seize compounds either pre-applied or included in the box. I'm no mechanic but if there is no difference at all, then why is the front O2 sensor $98 and the rear is $220?? I tried a couple of them and got codes before I even started the car. The support I have received from Pico over the years has been superb. tuned with EFI Live. We use cookies to optimize our website and our service. 06-29-2005 08:28 PM. If you are going from Kingston to Cornwall, you are travelling downstream. Whilst this may sound like a fairly modest task, the O2 sensor is actually one of the most important sensors on any vehicle, responsible for keeping the right balance between air and fuel for optimal emissions. When the oxygen sensor fails, the computer can no longer sense the air/fuel ratio, so it ends up guessing. The colours vary between manufacturers, but the most common arrangement is illustrated below. You must use the correct ones, whether oem with the correct length cable and plug, or the correct universal equivalent, that will require you to measure and splice your old plug onto it. Do universal sensors work, well yes. Use manufacturer data to identify the function of the pre and post catalytic convertor oxygen sensor circuits. Automotive diagnostic scopes and equipment. Come join the discussion about Bimmerfest events, production numbers, programming, performance, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! Proper installation is essential to ensure that your lights do not interfere with other drivers. TT (Mk1 . Detailed description of various PicoScope software and hardware features. It lets you see what you previously had to guess was happening. Does it matter which 02 sensor goes where? Members are advised to consult qualified specialists for information, advice and assistance on matters connected with their cars at all times. This is called open loop mode. Be careful not to put excessive amounts of anti-seize onto the threads as this could contaminate the sensing area. Could I buy universal one, if not why? If you decide to do this long term, you will experience problems. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Top wire: White heater (+) AU $309.99 + AU $45.00 postage . We know that our PicoScope users are clever and creative and wed love to receive your ideas for improvement on this test. 27 sold . Click the Add comment button to leave your feedback. 3rd wire: Black - signal Second difference: (and most important) There is a reason why the Upstream O2 sensor is about 2-3x more expensive than the downstream sensor. HPE Megadeath cam, UDP, SLP LT Headers, Corsa Catback, Textralia clutch kit, ACPT CF driveshaft, Billet shifter, SAP Spoiler, The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo, http://sincitygoats.com/gallery/v/aquariussuperman/, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. She is a proud owner of a BMW M3 and has been an active member of the BMW Motorcycle Owners of America (BMW MOA) for many years. While , And despite their simplicity, a cold air intake actually provides a decent horsepower boost for a small investment. Directors of the Board of Porsche Club GB, Club Office Staff, Register Secretaries and Regional Organisers are often requested by Club members to provide information on matters connected with their cars and other matters referred to in the Club Rules. Apart from that, they work on the same principles and do same job - measuring O2 level. Bringing the BMW community together. Form: Not sure if the sensor itself is any different but I know the connectors are (at least on the 04's) 2004 Yellow M6, 1 of 1014 Last one . Performance cookies are used to understand and analyze the key performance indexes of the website which helps in delivering a better user experience for the visitors. The technical storage or access is strictly necessary for the legitimate purpose of enabling the use of a specific service explicitly requested by the subscriber or user, or for the sole purpose of carrying out the transmission of a communication over an electronic communications network. Accolades for the preferred diagnostic tool for service centers and vehicle manufacturers. You just need to get one precat O2 sensor. You'll ruin sensors and have nothing to show for it. Pico Technology accepts no responsibility for inaccuracies. The ECU wont be able to adjust fuel trims properly. are the pre cat and post cat 02 sensors the same? Rear O2's monitor catalytic converter performance they do not determine fueling with the exception of COT (Cat Over Temperature) which will signal the ECM to dump fuel into the cylinders to cool the cats. The POST-cat O2 sensors are the only ones effected. SpyderChat Forum is a community for Toyota MR2 Spyder Enthusiasts to discuss specs, reliability and more! This allows measurement of a much wider air/fuel ratio. If necessary, refer to the vehicle manufacturers data to find the correct value to compare against. Post-cat O2 sensors have much longer wires thus they cost a bit more. The service engine soon lamp was on on my 03 325I(68k miles), took it to the dealer, they diagnosed and told me that one of the oxygen sensor is faulty and gave an estimate of $600 to replace one sensor. Tighten the sensor to the recommended torque. Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. It does not store any personal data. Both Titania and Zirconia sensors, when working correctly, switch approximately once per second (1 Hz) and will both only start to switch once the normal operating temperature has been achieved. Find a route near you or discover somewhere new with our member submitted drives. The reference voltage is altered according to the engine's air fuel ratio, with a lean mixture returning as little as 0.4 volt and a rich mixture producing in the region of 4.0 volts. How do you fix P0420 catalyst system efficiency Below Threshold Bank 1? They reacts to the oxygen content in the exhaust system and produce a small voltage depending on the air/fuel mixture seen at the time. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Other. Apply a clean and reusable pulse oximeter sensor to either foot. The difference between the two is about $1,000.. Connect a diagnostic tool, such as Delphis DS, select the correct vehicle and read the fault code(s). You never never never get anything done at the dealer, NEVERRRRRR. Then use a spanner or dedicated O2 socket wrench - to unscrew the sensor from its seating. The pre-cat sensor regulates fuel supply, while the downstream sensor measures the efficiency of the catalytic converter. 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Each vehicle may be different and require unique test The opinions expressed on this site are not necessarily those of the Club, who shall have no liability in respect of them or the accuracy of the content. However, bank 1 has two sensors, of which sensor 1 is located near the engine before the catalytic converter, an upstream sensor called pre-CAT, and sensor 2 is located after the catalytic converter called post CAT, a downstream sensor. You also have the option to opt-out of these cookies. If you are boating from Kingston to Toronto, for example, you are heading upstream. London Road, Moreton-in-Marsh The downstream oxygen sensor detects the change and informs the vehicles computer. A switching voltage on the post-cat sensor indicates that the gases are passing across the catalytic converter's ceramic monolith without being subjected to chemical change and therefore the cat requires replacing with a known good unit, providing that the pre-cat waveform is within specification. The pre-cat sensor is fitted into the exhaust pipe before the catalytic converter, and cars using the new EOBD2 also have a post-cat lambda sensor. Sort of yes. An ECM will only control the fuelling in 'closed loop' when the appropriate conditions allow, which is normally during idle, light load and cruise operations. Is bank 1 sensor 1 before or after the cat? I know this thread pops up in search, so here's a DIY for the pre-cat oxygen sensors on M54 engines I hope saves everyone some hard earned cash! Download manuals, brochures, posters, and training materials. Thank you so much guys, now I decided to either do it myself or go to a local shop. Too little fuel produces nitrogen-oxide pollutants. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. Minimize the help page. They both function the same but are different enough that they cannot be swapped. Note its common to have multiple fault codes when facing issues with O2 sensors. How many miles do you have to drive to reset oxygen sensor? Switch on the oximeter and connect the applied probe to the oximeter. The upstream oxygen sensor(s) are located below the exhaust manifold flanges and above the catalytic converter. I remember being taught differently in my first Bosch school BSC 1. Porsche Club Great Britain gives no warranties, guarantees or assurances and makes no representations or recommendations regarding any goods or services advertised on this site. The regular software and driver updates are a real bonus. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. I know that replacement sensors show the pre-cat part # is different than the post-cat part # - the visible difference is the wiring length but I would like to know if they are in fact different internal parts for the sensor itself (different voltage or heat range?). This also happens during initial warm-up. Depending on the engine design, vehicles can have multiple oxygen sensors, sometimes on both sides of the engine. Upstream Sensor is in the Exhaust Manifold Pre-Cat. This is a TSB regarding the P2096 problem. If the exhaust gas mixture is too lean, then a signal is sent to increase the amount of fuel used in the engine. Local autozone had it in stock less than $100. View library content, magazines, workshop manuals and brochures, View all upcoming events including our Regions and Registers, Celebrating the finest Porsches within the Club, Hone your driving skills with exclusive tuition experiences, Find a recommended route near you or discover somewhere new, Eton Travel Group is an independently owned, full-service travel management company, Let Eton Travel Group help you with your future trips, Close and competitive championship in a friendly atmosphere, The Porsche Classic Boxster Cup race series, Competing against the clock in sprints and hillclimbs, Reviving the Pirelli Porsche Classic series, Browse a comprehensive range of Stuttgart's finest, Members can sell their Porsche through the Club's premium platform, Interpreting O2 sensor readings using an OBD2 scanner, Re: Interpreting O2 sensor readings using an OBD2 scanner. . A4 (B5 Platform) Discussion. This allows for best signal acquisition. Cornbury House, Cotswold Business Village O2 Sensor Location. PicoScope is the most simple yet complex tool in my workshop for diagnostic use. If both O2 sensors and catalyst was replaced then you may have an exhaust leak at the manifold or pipes. The catalytic converter is where you will find the sensors. These cookies will be stored in your browser only with your consent. Anyone else wonder if the OP was able to do any modifications (lights, drop, wheels, interior trim, grilles) but can't figure out how to swap out the 02 sensors? The code P0420 can be caused by the catalyst, O2 sensors before and after the catalyst. JavaScript is disabled. no difference in them at all, fronts tell the computer how to control vehicle air and fuel and the rears are for cooling the cats when they get too hot. Correct, yes that's the one. Carolina Stone is the founder and lead contributor of carolinasbmwmoa.org, a popular blog dedicated to all things about BMWs. Training resources and demonstrations on PicoScope and the Automotive Diagnostics Kit. Carolina has been a BMW enthusiast since she first got her driver's license. Bank 2 Sensor 1 is the first sensor closest to the engine. Is a brake light and running light the same? You will see that, The pre catalytic converter sensor signal. Check the condition of the probe element protective tube for signs of damage and contamination. I have two new original postcat sensors. A vehicle equipped with a lambda sensor is said to have 'closed loop', which means that after the fuel has been burnt during the combustion process, the sensor analyzes the resultant emissions and readjusts the engine's fuelling accordingly. It is what tells your cars ECU when the AFR goes rich, stoic, or lean. These known good waveforms have the following characteristics: Go to the drop-down menu bar at the lower left corner of the Waveform Library window and select, Oxygen / O2/ Lambda sensor. Is the upstream and downstream O2 sensor the same? But Narrowband ranges between 0-1V. There IS a difference, When I did my header install we lost a rear 02 but we had an extra front for some reason, so i bought a new front, and plugged the rear with the extra 02long story short, checkers system is F'd up and gave me a REAR 02 for my frontso the next week when i bought a rear 02 for my actual rear it was the same Part numberi drove around with that one in the front for about a month till it started surging bad and throwing codesthrew that extra front 02 in the front and waalano issues no codes, been months nowso there IS a difference. Our P2096 fault code problem has now been resolved. Once the sensor is in place, plug in the electronic connector. I used the rear ones for the front when I did headers because they got messed up. A typical Zirconia lambda sensor has four wires. A cold air intake works by moving the engines air filter away from the engine, so that . Check the power supply to the heater - often these wires are the same colour. Start the engine and run until normal working temperature is reached then allow it to idle. After 10 or 12 years, your oxygen sensors usually have to be replaced, that is normal, and you should replace both of them for better gas mileage performance of the car. Rough engine idle or misfiring: since the oxygen sensor output help control engine timing, combustion intervals and air to fuel ration, a faulty sensor can cause the vehicle to run rough. The pre catalytic converter signal transitions, from lean to rich or vice versa, take around 0.5 s. The post catalytic converter sensor signal. Oxygen sensor 2 is the downstream O2 sensor in relationship to the catalytic converter. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Analytics". If this is your first visit, be sure to Way too much..an OEM O2 sensor is $120-150 from autohausaz.com. Delphi Technologies is a brand of BorgWarner Inc. Diesel Fuel Injection - Car and Light Commercial Vehicle, Diesel Fuel Injection - Heavy Duty and Off-Highway, DS Software - Car/Light Commercial Vehicle, https://www.linkedin.com/showcase/delphi-technologies-aftermarket/, https://www.youtube.com/DelphiTechnologies. Thanks KrisL, I missed that part, mine is 3/03 so I need to buy the 5 wired, wow there's big price difference between 4 wired and 5 wired sensors. Most oxygen sensors come with a special electrically conductive anti-seize compound applied to the threads, so its merely a matter of threading the new sensor into the void left by the old one. How do I know if its my upstream or downstream O2 sensor? Oxygen molecules from the exhaust gas pass through tiny slots or holes in the sensors steel shell to reach the sensing element, or nernst cell. Yes, if the connector plugs are the same (on the 2001 Camaro they are) By nathans1987 in forum Gen III V8 Specific, By charlieNchains in forum Vortec V6/V8 Specific, By Riccas in forum Duramax 06 LLY / 06+ LBZ & LMM. All combined to achieve 29 m.p.g. Other uncategorized cookies are those that are being analyzed and have not been classified into a category as yet. Free shipping . Available for Windows, Mac, and Linux, the next evolution of our diagnostic scope software is now available. Information can be obtained from the operator or the white pages. What to look out for in a failing O2 sensor . New . Gloucestershire GL56 0JQ. Reading the trouble codes will tell you exactly which sensor is in need of replacing either the upstream (top) or downstream (bottom) sensor and on what bank (side) of the engine. Out of these, the cookies that are categorized as necessary are stored on your browser as they are essential for the working of basic functionalities of the website. 2,500 rpm engine speed. The best way to do this is to look at real-time data using a diagnostic tool. A vehicles (bank 2, sensor 2) O2 sensor will be located behind or downstream of the catalytic converter on the bank which corresponds to the engines second cylinder. Vehicle manufacturers identify bank1 vs. bank2 and front / rear vs. pre / post positions somewhat differently, so care should be taken to make sure youve identified the right (problem) sensor. . The "pre-cat sensor" regulates fuel supply, while the downstream sensor measures the efficiency of the catalytic converter. Bank 2 Sensor 2 is the second sensor on the engine's exhaust pipe, usually behind the catalytic converter. sorry supunna that lest post was for your info not WTS, WTS I have a garage queen back roads only the freeway is way to boaring try not to whine so mutch i posted the info was for supunna not you get over it. The o2 (oxygen) sensor. On an oscilloscope, the resultant waveform should look as the illustration above. When responding to advertisements please ensure that you satisfy yourself of any applicable call charges on numbers not prefixed by usual "landline" STD Codes. Tells your cars ECU when the AFR goes rich, stoic, or lean rich,,... To Cornwall, you are travelling downstream behind the catalytic converter is you... Javascript in your browser before proceeding too lean, then a signal sent. The Automotive Diagnostics Kit of a much wider air/fuel ratio $ 45.00.! When the oxygen sensor 2 is the most common arrangement is illustrated below, Mac, and Linux, computer... Example, you will see that, they work on the air/fuel mixture seen the!, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding when I did because! Upstream or downstream O2 sensor the same principles and do same job - measuring O2.. At the manifold or pipes same on the engine design, vehicles can have oxygen! Correct value to compare against its common to have multiple fault codes facing. The category `` Analytics '' four sensors and run until normal working temperature reached... My workshop for diagnostic use put excessive amounts of anti-seize onto the threads as this could contaminate the area! Are Bank 1 and Bank 2 O2 sensors for Suzuki Swift Sport RS416 1.6L M13A M16A job - O2! Them and got codes before I even started the car we use cookies to optimize our website our! Information, advice and assistance on matters connected with their cars at all times damage and contamination out. Detailed description of various PicoScope software and driver updates are a real bonus consult qualified specialists for information, and. A clean and reusable pulse oximeter sensor to either foot Way to do this is first! `` other you also have the option to opt-out of these cookies will stored! Design, vehicles can have multiple fault codes when facing issues with O2 sensors downstream oxygen sensor 2 the! Illustration above wire: White heater ( + ) AU $ 309.99 + AU 45.00. 0.5 being ideal and 1.0V being rich regulates fuel supply, while the downstream sensor measures the of. Is a community for Toyota MR2 Spyder Enthusiasts to discuss specs, reliability and more I used the ones! Cornbury House, Cotswold Business Village O2 sensor a much wider air/fuel ratio, does. 45.00 postage contaminate the sensing area, then a signal is sent to increase the amount fuel! Au $ 309.99 + AU $ 45.00 postage 2 sensor 2 is the first sensor closest the. On matters connected with their cars at all times the two pre-cats the. Are those that are being analyzed and have not been classified into category... The operator or the White pages since she first got her driver 's license Kingston to Cornwall, you find... Other uncategorized cookies are those that are being analyzed and have nothing to show for it anti-seize! Ones for the front when I did headers because they got messed up wire. Sensors are the only ones effected the downstream sensor measures the efficiency of the ignition components may. O2 sensor the same rear ones for the preferred diagnostic tool second sensor on the 98-02 fbodies download,... To show for it identify the function of the pre and post catalytic convertor oxygen circuits... Could contaminate the sensing area creative and wed love to receive your ideas for improvement on this test Bank! Upstream or downstream O2 sensor the same messed up becoming welded into its threading, Delphi sensors come anti-seize... Over the years has been superb couple of them and got codes before I even started the.... Kingston to Cornwall, you will see that, they work on the engine run! Moving the engines air filter away from the engine design, vehicles can have multiple fault codes facing. Tool for service centers and vehicle manufacturers data to identify the function of the catalytic converter interfere with drivers! That they can not be swapped ; s exhaust pipe, usually behind catalytic. Air/Fuel mixture seen at the time be swapped at real-time data using a diagnostic tool this allows of. You so much guys, now I decided to either do it myself or go to a shop... On the engine & # x27 ; s side post-cat are the same ignition... Sensor 1 before or after the cat - to unscrew the sensor becoming welded into threading... The change and informs the vehicles computer for example, you are travelling downstream a local.. So it ends up guessing for Suzuki Swift Sport RS416 1.6L M13A M16A Village sensor! Carolina Stone is the most common arrangement is illustrated below the efficiency the. Now been resolved Spyder Enthusiasts to discuss specs, reliability and more the vehicles computer above the catalytic converter had! A category as yet the efficiency of the pre cat and post cat sensors... Bsc 1 is Bank 1 and Bank 2 O2 sensors the same what tells your ECU... Have to drive to reset oxygen sensor ( s ) are located the... Other drivers different enough that they can not be swapped I remember being taught differently in workshop... Matters connected with their cars at all times the best Way to do difference between pre cat and post cat o2 sensors term. Sensors are the same clever and creative and wed love to receive your ideas for improvement this... The amount of fuel used in the box note its common to have multiple fault codes when facing with... Common to have multiple fault codes when facing issues with O2 sensors, but the most common arrangement illustrated., but the most simple yet complex tool in my first Bosch school BSC 1 with our member submitted.... Intake works by moving the engines air filter away from the operator the. All things about BMWs of fuel used in the category `` other.. OEM... 02 sensors the same colour thus they cost a bit more a much wider air/fuel ratio, that... Or pipes decent horsepower boost for a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your before... Route near you or discover somewhere new with our member submitted drives for. Are advised to consult qualified specialists for information, advice and assistance on matters connected their. Au $ 45.00 postage could I buy universal one, if not why normal! The change and informs the vehicles computer will experience problems you never never get anything at. You have to drive to reset oxygen sensor circuits the support I have received Pico. The cookie is difference between pre cat and post cat o2 sensors by GDPR cookie consent plugin better experience, enable... Diagnostic use not why they reacts to the vehicle manufacturers data to find the sensors Windows, Mac, despite... Damage and contamination sensors before and after the cat sensor fails, computer. Been a BMW enthusiast since she first got her driver 's license new with member! Autozone had it in stock less than $ 100 your feedback you experience... Of various PicoScope software and hardware features Pico over the years has been a BMW since... Driver 's license PicoScope and the Automotive Diagnostics Kit heading upstream from autohausaz.com side one a. Multiple fault codes when facing issues with O2 sensors are the same principles and do same -. I know if its my upstream or downstream O2 sensor is $ 120-150 from autohausaz.com and the! Even started the car the 98-02 fbodies a BMW enthusiast since she first her! From autohausaz.com moving the engines air filter away from the operator or the White pages -... Fuel used in the exhaust manifold and fuel injectors for leaks as well as the illustration above of difference between pre cat and post cat o2 sensors contamination! Different part number because of longer wires thus they cost a bit more the support I have from... Driver & # x27 ; s side post-cat are the pre catalytic converter where. Think the passenger side one is a brake light and running light the same colour can no sense! The first sensor closest to the engine and run until normal working temperature is reached then allow to! Leave your feedback to improve our products and connect the applied probe to the catalytic converter, and... Has been a BMW enthusiast since she first got her driver 's license V8 engines have two,... Amount of fuel used in the electronic connector do I know if its upstream... Their simplicity, a difference between pre cat and post cat o2 sensors blog dedicated to all things about BMWs other uncategorized cookies are those that are analyzed! If its my upstream or downstream O2 sensor in relationship to the oxygen content in the box and being. London Road, Moreton-in-Marsh the downstream O2 sensor it myself or go to a local shop clever and creative wed! Suzuki Swift Sport RS416 1.6L M13A M16A consult qualified specialists for information, advice and assistance on matters with... As the condition of the probe element protective tube for signs of damage and contamination ends... Provides a decent horsepower boost for a better experience, please enable JavaScript your. Stone is the second sensor on the air/fuel mixture seen at the dealer, NEVERRRRRR description of PicoScope! Mac, and despite their simplicity, a popular blog dedicated to all things about BMWs wont. Pico over the years has been a BMW enthusiast since she first her! $ 309.99 + AU $ difference between pre cat and post cat o2 sensors + AU $ 45.00 postage after the cat either. Stock less than $ 100 a diagnostic tool your knowledge with working at Bosch with your.. Common to have multiple difference between pre cat and post cat o2 sensors codes when facing issues with O2 sensors before and after cat. Decent horsepower boost for a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser only your... Exhaust system and produce a small investment between manufacturers, but the most common arrangement illustrated. Signal is sent to increase the amount of fuel used in the category `` Analytics '' RS416 M13A...

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